Andrew Limbong - Hey, it’s NPR’s book of the day, I’m Andrew Limbong. Okay, okay, okay, I know I’m super late for it, but I just saw Thelma and Louise for the first time the other weekend. I know that this won’t be old news to most of you, but Geena Davies is absolutely incredible in that movie. She’s funny, and vulnerable, but defiant in this magnetic way that you really understand why someone would want to follow her to, you know, you know. She’s got a new memoir called Dying of Politeness, and she talked to NPR’s Rachel Martin about how each of her big movies taught her something important about life. And when they get to the Thelma and Louise section, she talks about learning to find her own agency, and strength, and ability to speak up for herself. But it wasn’t anything about the role that taught her those lessons, it was being around Susan Sarandon.

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Rachel Martin -  For an oscar winning actor, Geena Davies has suffered from a lot of self doubt over the years. It’s a theme in her new memoir, which is titled Dying of Politeness. One of Davies’ first jobs was in retail, and she soon got noticed after modeling in a shop window. A casting director saw her photos in a sales catalog, and all of a sudden she was in a movie with Dustin Hoffman. The 1982 hit comedy Tootsie.

Clip from Tootsie played.

Geena Davies - For that role, the casting director decided to contact model agencies to see if they had any models who could act, and then I got to go to the audition. And they said “wear a bathing suit underneath your clothes in case you read well, they want to see you in a bathing suit.”Okay, so I did, and I read, and it’s just with an assistant casting person in an office videoing, and she doesn’t say can I see you in a bathing suit. So I put it completely out of my mind, of course. My first audition, so nothing’s going to happen from this, so. But then it turned out Sidney Pollack the director saw my tape and said “Hey, I like her, where’s her bathing suit shot.” “Oh we forgot.” “Well, get her back” “We can’t, she’s in Paris.” “Well, do they have any photos of her in a bathing suit?” And as it happened, I had been in a Victoria’s Secret catalog, and so they were able to send over beautifully lit, perfectly wind blown, and I ended up getting the part without them seeing me in person in a bathing suit.

Rachel Martin - Tootsie was nominated for ten academy awards. This was in 1983. Obviously, just being part of that cast opened doors for you, but you write a lot in this book about this self-criticism that you’ve done ever since you were a kid. You were insecure about your height, your looks. Acting is sort of the wrong line of work for a person with those characteristics, no?

Geena Davie - Well, right. I was somebody who couldn’t stand for people to look at me, or if they were staring at me, well what, are they judging me or something? But then I’d pick the goal of having as many people as possible look at me, so I don’t know. Up to and including my underwear. So I don’t know. The only thing I can conclude is that maybe I was attracted to the ability to be somebody else.

Rachel Martin -  Thelma and Louise came out in 1991. You were originally attached to the film as Louise, which I didn’t know.

Geena Davies - No, actually, the movie was cast two or three times before I ever got cast. It took me a year to intensely following it and lobbying to have a chance to audition. And I thought that I should play Louise, so finally Ridley Scott, he was going to produce it, but now he decided to direct it himself, I met with him, and I poured out my heart about why I absolutely must be in this movie and play Louise. And then he finally said “So in other words, you wouldn’t play Thelma?” And I’m like, oh my god, I just talked myself out of this movie because I asked for the wrong part. So then I said “You know what, as I’ve been talking to you about this, I realize, I actually should play Thelma.” And then I just made (bleeped) up about why I absolutely had to be Thelma. When he hired Susan Sarandon to play Louise, as soon as I met her I was like oh my god, what was I thinking that I could play Louise, what, what. I was so happy I was Thelma.

Rachel Martin - I mean that movie, words fail really to express what that meant to so many women and young women. To see these female characters, central to this story.

Geena Davies - Well, the whole experience had a huge impact on me. I think Susan Sarandon had the largest impact on my life of anyone that I’ve known, and it was as fantastic as I assumed that it was going to be making that movie.

Clip from Thelma and Louise played.

Geena Davies - Watching the way Susan walked through the world, how she said what she thinks without any qualifiers in front of it. You know, like everything I said started with, this is probably a bad idea, and you’re going to hate it, probably, but what would you think, possibly? You know, and she never did that, and somehow I’d never been exposed, extensively, to a woman who moved through the world like that, and it was like a lesson every day in how to speak up for yourself.